Sleepy forums lately.

[aschueler]

Here's what I have been up to.

Took a tip from Don and went to a lumberyard reasonably close. Got some 3'4" soft maple plywood and 20 board feet of maple to make a changing table.

Learned a few things. What follows is a bit of newbie plywood rant, please don't read if you aren't interested.

Apparently just about all plywood around here (everywhere?) has a super thin veneer. I didn't realize that. It looks like about 1/16", and makes cutting it a pain with regard to some surprising tearout. I bought oak plywood at Home Depot last year, which had the thin veneer, and figured it would be different at a lumberyard. Nope. They're also NOT 3/4" thick. I don't remember the actual measurement, but they're thinner. This makes them nearly impossible to sand. On the good side, all my cuts so far seem to be accurate, with one being 1/16" off, but it's the back and I doubt it will show. Of course, 1/16" off means I couldn't sand edges to match, as it's how thick the veneer itself is! The other good thing is the faces are already smooth, but I am worried about the little hidden lines that show up after staining if they're not sanded properly.

Whew.

I know everyone wants pics, so I will try to get some as I progress through this thing.

Expect me to ask some questions as I progress through this, as it's the first LARGE piece of indoor furniture I have made, and I want to come out right.

[Cocobolove]

Maybe it would help with the tearout if you scored the top with a razor blade. I've never tried it on plywood, but you have to do it on doors or the thin veneers will splinter and tear out. Hope this helps.

[Don]

Hey, aschuler. Yes, hardwood veneers have gotten thinner as the wood has become more valuable and the machinery to produce it has gotten better. The nature of the beast, you have to work around it and make your work very exacting. Tearout is a product of various things. Blade wobble, cheap blade, saw vibration, wrong choice of tooth grind or number of teeth, blade too high (tear on bottom) blade too low (tear on top) wood too dry, poor veneer adhesion. You simply have to experiment to get the right combination that wins for your setup. A tight throat plate always helps on the bottom. You can also try cutting through a masking tape line, sometimes that works. And yes, it's rare to find on-size 3/4" plywood anymore.

dawjr

[Don]

Yeah, the forums have been quiet - maybe everyone getting in the swing of spring?

[aschueler]

I understand the spring bit. Garden ate up a lot of time last weekend.

The table saw seems to not tear wood up at all; it's my cheap circular saw.

[mmwood_1]

I understand the spring bit. Garden ate up a lot of time last weekend.

The table saw seems to not tear wood up at all; it's my cheap circular saw.

Well no wonder!!! You cannot expect to get really clean cuts on plywood with a circular saw.
By the way, if your veneer was 1/16" thick, you got a winner. Usually, I believe it's 1/24", or so I read. I get ply sometimes that's probably not even that. HOWEVER, if you're using an orbital sander on it, you can start with 150 grit and give it a quick once-over, then finish sand with 220. If you are careful not to do too much near the edges, you should not have any problem with sanding through the veneer. At least, I never have.
Most sheets of 3/4" hardwood ply run 23/32", at least around here they do. And last week I bought some vertical grain 1" x 4" hemlock and you know what? It was only 11/16" thick. I had to rework all my calculations on these cabinets.

[bogydave]

"Sleepy" is an understatement.
Cheaper made plywood & thinner at a higher cost.
Are you trying to get us fired up?
Plywood is still better than OSB, which has just about replaced all building materials due to costs.
I noticed they have router bits 17/32" & 23/32" now.
Maybe that's an even metric demension.
This all make a good craftsman more valuable, if you can make this stuff strong & look good in the end project, your a craftsman.

[aschueler]

Not to totally change directions, but sometimes I wish my measurements were all metric.

Figuring out what 5 15/16" plus an extra 2 3/8" on the fly slows me down, for example. Using metric stuff in physics and chemistry made it at least a little survivable!

However, I would really miss a good ol' 3/4".

8/10" = 2 cm

3/4" = 1.9 cm

23/32" = 1.8 cm

17/32 = 1.3 cm

So, nope, no real metric reason for those dimensions.

[old_guy]

A clever fellow realized that in woodworking a 32nd of an inch is more precision than you need, while a 16th is often not enough. So he came up with a system of dividing an inch into 24ths. This unit of measurement is called the "BOB" -- there are 24 Bobs to the inch. (As you might guess, his name is Bob!)

The Bob system has another huge advantage -- Bobs are divisible by 3! Try dividing halves, fourths, eighths, sixteenths, etc. by 3. Bobs, however, are divisible by 2,3,4,6,8,12, etc.

If you think I'm kidding, look at www.bobsrule.com. I bought one, and have found it to be very handy.

[Don]

Hey, Old Guy. Thanks for the link and the interesting article. This will be a neat trick if this fellow is able to make any headway. You can see by the price of the rules that he's most likely in trouble. I've used both metric and imperial to a great extent. All overseas machinery operate on the metric system. It was actually easier to run a plant on the metric system when dealing with unknowing people. Many people don't know how to read a ruler in the first place, using a millimeter system brings the measurement down to a single number. Either multiplying or dividing imperial by 25.4 gives you millimeters. We had great success running a plant on the 32mm system of hardware and machinery.

Bob's argument is well taken for the closed environment of the shop - you can do anything you want. The problem arises when you are conversing with others or making drawings for approval. We had to make all of our shop drawings in feet-inches while the plant operated on metric. That was fun. The US is behind the rest of the world here.

We'll go through the trouble of changing our broadcast standards (analog to HD) for our televisions, but teach the metric system and get in touch with the rest of the world is just too much to insist upon. If you think about it, every mechanic has to have/purchase a double set of tools. Makes one think there is even a "Wrench Lobby."

All the best, Don

[bogydave]

We'll go through the trouble of changing our broadcast standards (analog to HD) for our televisions, but teach the metric system and get in touch with the rest of the world is just too much to insist upon. If you think about it, every mechanic has to have/purchase a double set of tools. Makes one think there is even a "Wrench Lobby."
Don

We just found one of Don's buttons!
You are getting to sound a little poitical. LOL
I have not doubt about the tool lobby. We are consumers first, citizens 2nd.
But this topic was what ? o yea, sleepy forums. Well it woke Don up.
I like "Bob" s, makes as much or more sense that "the kings foot is 12" system"
With or without glasses I can't measure 23/32" accurately. :)

Any body make any saw dust lately? I'm making bird houses, purple martin will be showing up soon & they eat allot of mosquitoes. Next will be a bat house.
Garden, golf & fishing soon. :) :)

[Don]

Sorry - I'll try harder to resist political musings - it's an easy target.

I'm in the middle of an office move/remodel, I'll be back soon. Ya'll stay busy out there.

dawjr

[aschueler]

Actually I totally agree with Don. I am one of the weirdoes who doesn't have cable and rely on analog signals. Maybe I will get a box, maybe I won't. I can say I miss TV nearly as much as you might think. The stuff that gets me is that I don't get good football games.

I am working on changing table for our upcoming addition to the family (first kid). Other firsts: first time I have made & installed drawers (still working on these), first time I have used a biscuit joiner (it isn't magic but it's better than dowels), and first set of pipe clamps (not all pipes that say they are 3/4" fit on those).

I seem to make a lot of mistakes; learning a lot too.

[Don]

Hey, now - wait a minute! Don't get me wrong, as a member of the "more technology is better" club I will have to admit that I'm a Satellite/DVR/Tivo/HD/DLP type of guy. (sorry) My lament was probably not a good analogy. I was trying to simply point out the differences in what people think are important.

dawjr