Tablesaw 101 ?

[bogydave]

I'm learning the hard way, which sometimes is the best way as long as nobody gets injured. The factory blade insert is loose & allows wood to get caught between it & the blade. Plus it is supposed to help the "bottom cut" be cleaner as the board has support right up to the blade. So I made some zero clearance inserts & several blanks for future use. Factory one from Grizzly is the orange one.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/zroclearanceinserts.jpg

I used 1/2" mdf. Is this OK material?
I read online that it should work fine.
I used a patern router bit & the store bought zc insert to make a patern & just cut several out once I was all set up to go. I removed the allen screws from the factory metal insert to locate the leveling screws. Some of the "make zero clearance insert" guys online laminate the top of the mdf. May try that next time. I used the ras to cut a partial grove in the bottom of the insert as the blade, when all the way down, didn't allow enough room for the insert to fit.
The factory one had a big gove in it. The Dado was no problem since there was plenty of clearance.
I installed the new insert, clamped a board on top of it, started the saw & raised the blade. What a nice clean fit eh? Same for the dado one.
Some cuts the guard has to be removed so the one on the saw in the pic does not have a grove for the splitter/guard clamp.

Should I build an outfeed table?
I realy notice the need for an outfeed table. It seems difficult (& unsafe) to me to rip a board & reach over the saw to get the pieces. The spring loaded-anti-kickback grabs the board (so you have to shove it through it) & as the board begins to tilt it jams in the blade guard. It seems safer to me to not use the guard for many cuts. A long board is not as much trouble( long enough to reach an outfeed roller) it's the short ones I'm having the most trouble with. Even a 2 ft table would be helpful.
Am I on the right track or am I doing something wrong?

How far above the wood should the saw blade protrude when cutting?
I've been adjusting it so the whole carbide tooth clears the top of the cut. (about 1/4" or so, Forrest WW2 blade)

[Don]

Hey, Bogy. MDF is a good zero clearance material. You will find that laminating them makes them more effective longer. You should find that the factory metal insert will be just fine for 99% of your cutting.

An outfeed table is a benefit for all the reasons you stated. The best setup I ever had was an outfeed table that is about 4 feet deep and as wide as the entire saw, about six feet or more.

More experience will tell you what the blade height will be, this height changes quite a few things. Angle of tooth attack, chip outs - (top and bottom) fine cutting, rough cutting, etc. For general sawing with a 10" blade on 3/4" material, a blade that extends about 1" above the work is average. You will find that if you constantly run the blade low you will build up glue/pitch/resin on the blade. Too high and its a safety and chipping issue.

You've got enough inserts now to last an average lifetime.

dawjr

[thekl0wn]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f263/thekl0wn/Construction/Shop/CabinetSaw.jpg

Might be a bit of overkill, but comes in handy for ripping sheets. 99% of the time the extra space is used for collecting crap though! :mad:

[FarmerMark]

I built the bench in front of the saw as much for outfeed support as for bench space. The storage hutch behind the saw, and the bench into which the ras is mounted are both at the height of my saw table. I can rip sheet goods alone by positioning the table saw so that the full sheet is supported at both ends before starting the cut.

I usually break down sheets with a cordless skilsaw and a clamp on straightedge (saves on the heavy lifting), but, I can do it on the table saw if I choose.

The workbench can be pushed up to the rear fence rail on the saw, the fences removed from the saw and the blade lowered. I cover the whole space with rosin paper and use that for assembly or finishing.

What you do for outfeed support depends a lot on the space you have available.

Mark

[bogydave]

Thanks Don
I stopped by a cabinate shop looking for ideas (they all had outfeed tables of some kind). Why is it tha every table saw I've seen this past week does not have the guard installed? It's telling me the engineered safety solution is not even close to the "user safety" solution.

Thek;
Thanks
I like the big table. I'm going to use your idea & make something close to what you have. May not be as big but will do the job. (underfloor DC, niiiiiice!)
I got 4' X 8', 3/4" melamine at Lowes (75% off, damaged corner) so maybe a 3' X 7" outfeed table.
Did you use Plywood frame work?

Marks bench is a real good idea also.If I put my bench on wheels it'd be too high though & it would be impossible for me to right now cut 2 groves in it, ouch. Like the router table & seperate fence for it , another idea. Thanks

jcclark's idea of adding a block of wood to the miter gauge was allot of help.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/tsmitergage.jpg
I may add some 200 grit sandpaper to the face (1/2"short of edge) to improve the friction so the wood don't slide. I had to drill holes thru the face of the miter gauge ( cast iron) to install screw but no a big deal. It also showed me I was a little off on the alignment of the top/blade, the miter touched the back teeth more than the front teeth. (got it aligned right on, made several test cuts, checked with a "known good square" till is was right on) (did same for blade 90 degree stop bolt)

[JasonB]

"I stopped by a cabinate shop looking for ideas (they all had outfeed tables of some kind). Why is it tha every table saw I've seen this past week does not have the guard installed? It's telling me the engineered safety solution is not even close to the "user safety" solution."

How about this solution?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcd6dmARdnE


firstly, I'm jealous of your badass saw!

you know, I bet 99% of cabinet makers in my area would rather not use the saftey guards on tablesaws. I hear things like "I want to see the blade when I'm making a cut!" or "It just gets in the way" I've even heard "its more dangerous WITH the guard!" Some of these guys are just ignorant, some are quite tallented.

I personaly prefer to use a saw without the guard. I don't recomend it to anyone, especialy someone less experienced. But I do think its more of a preference than anything. but sometimes the guard must be removed to make certain cuts.

trust me, you don't want to get hit with that blade! I know, I learnt the hard way! pretty minor compared to what it could have been, but extremely painful! those blades don't just melt through flesh like a hot knife through butter as I thought. More like a killer whale eating a sea lion! LOL. it grabs and throws and hopefuly lets go. pretty violent actualy. and fast! boy is it fast! its so fast that you don't react until the saw has already made about 500 revolutions in your flesh! times 60-80 teeth! These power tools have no mercy. They don't stop 'til you shut them off.

Exercise respect and common sense. use a push stick. wear safety gear. and you should only remove that guard when absolutly needed.
bla bla bla bla bla!

OK> I'll shut up now!

[aschueler]

Bogy -- I am definitely NOT one of the experts, but I can tell you what has been working well for me.

I altered my work table to be the height of my table saw, so it doubles as an out feed table. It's really made things MUCH more convenient and seems safer to me. Since I have limited room (garage=workshop for me, and my car needs to go in there), when I need the support I just slide my table behind my saw. Of course, my table is nowhere NEAR as cool as yours (I saw some of your pics), but it's reasonably light.

Next, for at least the next 10 yrs or more I plan to keep my blade guard/pawls/riving knife attached as much as is feasible. It's already once or twice kept some wood from kicking back. Also, when I am ripping some slightly warped wood I breathe a sigh of relief once the wood gets past the blade a bit. Not sure why the blade guard would make things less safe.

[Don]

Hey, Guys. You'll find most old school shops will not have any guards on the saws. None of the ones that I grew up around had them installed. We simply used respect and techniques that kept most out of trouble. Most often, people get hurt when they lack confidence, knowledge or attention to what they are doing on the machines.

For the home hobbyist, I'd recommend working with the guards whenever possible. There are times that simply won't allow it, like working with a dado or shaping head. (unless you get an overarm guard)

Personally, I find that most will get hurt in these two types of operations. A single unusual cut or a repetitive cuts. A guy walks up to a saw and is going to cut something that is awkward, such as being unsupported - in this scenario you don't get the benefit of any practice. The next type is repetitive cuts, making lots of passes, producing a quantity of the same parts, inattention and over confidence will get you here. If I am making a lot of passes on the same setup, I look for a way to guard it.

The saw stop products are the state of the art. They are a little expensive, but it's cost avoidance, right? The table saw has a cartridge that has to be replaced when it fires, I'm not sure if it ruins the blade or not. Small price to pay when compared to a finger.

We had a guy in the field cut off three fingers just last week. One of those small bench top saws.

Be safe out there.

All the best, Don

[old_guy]

To add to Don's comments above, the brake on the SAWSTOP saw will also ruin the blade -- but that's a small price to pay for a finger or worse.

I concur wholeheartedly with Don's other comments. The older I get, the more cautious I get about taking shortcuts to save a few seconds. I'm reminded of the days when seat belts were in cars, but you weren't required to wear them. I would spend all kinds of time making sure my kids were buckled into their car seats, but didn't spend 5 seconds to buckle my seat belt. I guess I wanted to help make my kids orphans!

We are starting to see U.S. manufacturers get more serious about making safer saws, without sacrificing performance. Everyone is now making left-tilt blades, many are adding riving knives, and Steel City's saws are designed to make it easy to reinstall the blade guards if you must take it off.

By the way, SAWSTOP has announced that they will be selling a contractor style saw this Spring -- this should put this technology within the budget of more of us.

[bogydave]

I'm in the process of building the outfeed table. Trying to figure a way to make a "lift out" piece to cover the guard bolts & slots & be able to still gain access. Will post a pic of what I come up with. I like to hook most of my fingers over the rip fence & be pulling the wood against it (away from the blade) when doing most cuts. I use the guard when the cut allows for it. But many don't. Still thinking the process through before I turn on the saw & make the cut.

Any good push stick designs out there?
How do I make a feather board adjustable holder? (something to lock in the outboard miter slot)?

[bogydave]

Made outfeed table. 49" X 60"
Nobody mentioned that I needed groves for the miter gauge to extend into. Part of the learning curve I guess.
After I leveled with wedges & screw & tried it the miter gauge hit the new table. So instead of taking it off & cutting groves I used the fence & battery saw to cut in the groves.
Left enough room to access the bolts that hold the guard/splitter on. Ripped some 3/4 plywood in 3-1/2" strips & glued them together to make some 1-1/2" table frame material that was straight. Used 3/4" melamine for the top. Screw pockets up from bottom with wedges & spacers to get it straight & level (used a 6' straight edge)with the saw top. Had 2 legs left over from the saw install (extra with one of the extension kits ?)

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/tblsawoutfeed1.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/sawoutfeedtbl1.jpg