Workbench step 5 - Glue Glue Glue

[bogydave]

Got some glue, Dap Weldwood Plastic resin glue. (Ace hardwr)
Glue little boards to make big boards.
Read instructions & MSDS on the glue. Followed Don's instructions for glueing.
Doing small "glue up" parts to get the hang of it. Two 6" X 36" X 2" "End apron" (one will be the back jaw of the end vise)
Set up: mixed glue, bucket of water & rags, markd top of boards, putty knife, Clamps ready
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/Gluesetup.jpg

Applied glue to boards, 1 screw up: the last board I coated the wrong side. Next time I will put a piece of tap on the face "Do Not Glue" of the first & last boards. Clamped & alligned
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/gluebrdalingmtclmp.jpg

Cleaned excess glue for the top with putty knife & wet rag, then dry rag
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/gluclentop.jpg

Lots of ooz out the bottomSince a small glue up I was able to flip it over & clean the bottom.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glubotooz.jpg

Added 3 clamps before I flipped it over. More glue oozed out. Cleaned bottom same as top.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/gluflipovr.jpg

Lessons learned. WATCH WHERE YOU STEP!!. Mark the boards that WILL NOT get glue on them. I almost put glue on both sides of the last board & did glue the wrong side (no biggy on this one) Mix enough glue, I had to mix another batch for the last 2 boards, although not a big problem. I put some wood oil on a rag & wipped it on the pipe clamps to help prevent glu sticking to pipe.

Questions: When I added clamps, between the 4 clamps more glue ozzed out. Should I put a short 2X4 on each clamp to get pressure more evenly distributed throughout the whole length? Will 10 clamps be enough for an 8' glue up?

[Don]

Hey, bogy. Looks like you've got it going your way. I've seen that scene many times. Getting the right amount of glue mixed the first time is an art that will come in time. You can see from the amount of glue that squeezes out that as long as there is a thin film of glue on BOTH parts you will be okay. That means that you are assessing the amount of glue you have left while you are brushing it on.

I would say that you have more clamps on this piece than I would have used, but that's not a bad thing. You found out that if you put more clamps in place you will get more squeeze. I would space the clamps a little further and ALTERNATE the clamps as you go the first time. Not a big deal for this narrow clamping, but pipe clamps will BEND and put a bow in your work as it gets wider. Only alternating will solve this problem. You don't need a 2x4 as long as you are getting a good squeeze and glue line. You would if your beginning strips are thinner that what you are using.

10 clamps for 96"? One on each end, the others spaced about 9-10" apart, perfect. Nine would do. The glue will knock off the clamps with a hammer or sharp edge.

Thanks for the pictures.

dawjr

[thekl0wn]

Lookin' good! :D

Only suggestion I could make is that when you have your lower clamps laid out, I would cut a piece of cardboard, etc. just shy of the width you're clamping and lay it on the clamps. Yes, the glue pops off the metal, but it always leaves just a bit on there. Then you have it on the wood, which isn't terrible, and sands right off.... It's one of the those "six to one, half-dozen to another" situations.

[bogydave]

3rd glue up, 2" X 6" X 94" +/- apron. This board will have the dovetail pins to lock into the above 36" board. Getting the hang of it. (counted wrong, only got 9 pipe clamps) Tried using a 2X4 glu-lam this time. It makes it harder to work the boards & heavier to move. Used a 2" roller to apply glue, faster but less ozz out. Maybe not enough glue. Out of glue till Ace gets my order in. Hopefully tomorrow. Took all of the 1lb tub for 2 - 36" & 1- 8' glue up. (8 - 2" boards in each glue up)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/gluapron1a.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/Gluapron1.jpg

[Don]

Hey, Bogy. Glue-up looks fine. We've used rollers as well, glue line does get thin but as long as you have ANY squeeze out you're okay. Covering the floor with glue is not the object. Clamp spacing looks fine, as you found out the 2x4s can simply add a complication factor, not a better result. This glue does not need massive pressure to adhere or cure, as you've found out from looking at the mixing bowl the next morning. As long as your lumber is straight you don't need to put everything the clamp can muster on it. I also keep a shorter pipes on hand, they're cheap, swap out the clamp heads when you are doing a narrower clamping. Looks good.

dawjr

[Terry Mac]

Very nice bogy!

Great write up on your workbench. Keep'em comin.

[bogydave]

Set up for 1st top section. Will have 3 or 4 sections total. Keeping them less than 12" wide so I can run them thru a planner. I found enough glue locally to glue the dog board sections together. Glue came in today. 1/16/08. Put rods thru the alignment holes. & started glueing. Used brush for one side to get enough to ooz out & rolled the next face.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/gluwait-1.jpg
Slide the board on the rods, clamped, aligned & had one mother of a time getting the rods out. The alingment rods helped, but I need to keep them moving as I clamp.
Am glad the glue took a while, I learned allot glueing the small sections. If I had tried this first I'd have a mess. Should have the top all glued in a few days.
Took Don's advice & got some short 3/4 pipe for the clamps.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu1sectoftop.jpg

[Don]

The alignment rods are a neat trick to keep things going in the right direction. If you were making many more of these you'd find that you'd get comfortable enough with the process and you wouldn't need them. This is going to be a work of art.

dawjr

[bogydave]

1st glue-up not even thickness
The end of the 8' is 3/32 narrower than the middle.?
Several of things may be the reason, clamp tightness, board thickness, rookie glueing.
How to prep it when I glue the big pieces together?
Maybe I'm crying before I'm hurt & all is OK if that's normal.
I don't think I can joint a 2-1/2" X 10" X 8'. I might be able to run it through the RAS to get it straight. There will be 4 boards like this to glue together to make the bench top (this one is the thickest at 10") Got one of the 7-1/2" ones in the clamps setting up. Tried to not tighten the clamps over tight on this one & see if it comes out even. Getting better at getting the top level.
END light 9-7/8"
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/end1stlgu.jpg
MIDDLE heavy 9-15/16"
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/midle1stglu.jpg
The end is a light 9-7/8" & the middle is a heavy 9-15/16", About 3/32" diff.
Fixable? How? Any ideas out there?

[Don]

Hey, Bogy. Simply an unfortunate and expected fact of the process. You did pretty well consider all the laminations. I count 13 pieces, so if you were off by a little over a thousandth you would have had that much. Almost all glue-ups need a resize.

Okay, so how to do it now? I agree with the jointer issue, you would really need to have a well set up long bed jointer to insure success on the first pass or two, even then you might only be assured a straight edge and not have it parallel. If it was me, I'd determine my straightest edge and use that up against the table saw fence, I'd then rip it to the minimum size that would clean it up. If you don't have a straight edge on either side then it becomes a carrier operation. Attach the entire piece to a straight plywood rip, then use that edge on the saw fence.

The problem that could arise from that is that your saw blade might not reach through the material, most 10" saws will only cut 3" or so. I wouldn't worry too much about that either, simply make a half height cut and flip it over.

This adds a little bit of work, but don't get cheap on me now. Another consideration is to resize the entire affair after all the gluing has been done, which you may have/want to do anyway. The only problem with this is it's getting heavy, right?

Or . . . you may find that you can arrange your parts before the final gluing to make the bench top parallel

Or . . . you may find that you can adjust the thickness of a single plank that will be added to the last glue-up, making the whole thing parallel.

Or . . . you may find that the whole thing is fine like it is, the glue is strong enough to hold it and there may not be any reason to fret the bench being out just a little, except that you'll know and that may simply be the rub.

dawjr

[bogydave]

One side is straight on the 13 board one. It's 2-1/2" thick now before I plane it. To keep it square, I should saw a smigon off the curved side after I plane it Right?.
Good Idea to wait & get all the pieces glued before I jump into doing anything. If the stars align, one of the next pieces could be off just ths opposite as this one.
I should end up with about 2-1/4" +/- after planed.
For now I'll just keep glueing then "post the results" so we can figure aout the right solution. 2 more sections to glue & 7 days to cure (glue specs)till it can be machined.
The 6" apron pieces are cured & so I can get set up to plane them.

[Don]

Hey, Bogy. Yeah, wait until you get the rest of the parts, like you said, you might get lucky.

You don't have to wait the full seven days, we did everything imaginable to glued up parts the very next day. What does your mixing bowl tell you after 24 hours? Should be hard as a rock . . . unless you have a very cold shop, that will increase the cure time.

Now if you are using that as an excuse to keep from working - you didn't hear it from me.;)

dawjr

[bogydave]

2nd one came out a little crooked also. This one (3rd top piece)I used a helper & a 4"beam to hold straight.
Keeping shop around 65, glue gets hard after 2 days.
One more top piece to go, then plane & figure out if I need to do any trimming to get it straight
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu3dog.jpg

[Don]

Looks like the dog's weight was the charm.

If you're breaking the threaded portion of the pipe, I think I would back off on the Wheaties just a little.

Looks good.

dawjr

[bogydave]

(Good clamp, Cheap pipe :) from HD, I'm not that strong)
From 106 pieces to 8. I used about 6-1/2 - 1lb tubs of the glue. Got the last piece out of the clamps today (after the ball games)
Starting to be able to see how it's going to go together.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/bnchtp8pcs1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/bnchtp8pcs2.jpg

You can see some of the gaps in the next glue seam on this pic. I think I can joint the edges on the ras. Will do that after I run them through the planer.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/bnchtp8pcs3.jpg

I will have to adjust the width of the base trestle top board some now. When I joint the eges I'll loose a little width (32" now & it would be right on before jointing). Overall width willl still be close to 36".
My wife asked where the plans & drawings are. I showed her the picture in the book. Might have to draw up some plans "as built", when it's finished, they are always better anyway. I'm sure you guys picture what you want in your head & then start building it, sometimes anyway.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/bnchtp8pcs4.jpg

[bogydave]

Here's the Glue I used. Dap Weldwood plastic resin glue.
Comes in a powder by weight in 1 lb tubs (also in 4.5 lb tubs but not in Alaska, yet)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu01pwder.jpg

When mixing (some dust when mixing, so I wore a mask ) it the instructions say 68 deg min water temp. I used 80 deg, it mixed better with a little warmer & when the mixing was done, the glue was about 70 deg. 5 parts powder & 2 parts water. Mix about 2/3 of the water first & mix it till your arm is tired & the lumps are gone. Then add a little more- mix, add more- mix then the rest & mix. Let it set for a few minutes, any small lumps will float to the top. I smushed them on the side of the container & mixed them in.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu02wtrtmp.jpg

A good syurpy consistancey (Like Don said way back in the Workbench thread) I followed the instructions Don wrote up pretty close. (Bring back memories Don?)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu03mix.jpg

I all ready had tripple checked the order & posistion of the boards & had them stacked up ready to glue & stack. I used a brush on the side on the alignment rods & a small roller (was a little faster & didn't run as much into the alingment hole) on the next face.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu04applybrsh.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu05aplyroll.jpg

[bogydave]

I stacked the boards like this so the glue wouldn't be running out before I got them clamped.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu07stack.jpg
I had a bucket of hot water so I could keep my hands fairly clean & a rag to wipe them off between boards. This stuff will lump up instantly, if you use cold water, the hotter the better. I started using a new brush for every glue but when I discovered that, in hot water, the brush came clean fast. I kept using the same brush. This way you only have to pull brush hairs off the boards when the brush is new. The White 2X4 is screwed to the saw horses. The back 2X4 has a shoe screwed to it to keep it from tipping over. The long alignment rods made it a pain to lay the stack down in the clamps but was managable. (A helper would make it much easier.) I rolled the stack into the clamps & tightened just enough to see glue oozing out. I think they are called "cauls" but anywhere the boards needed aligned I clamped one in. I never got the hang of hammering them down, especially hammering them up. If a board was to thin to move up I put a shim under it & clamped a caul over it & it pulled up.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu08clamp.jpg
I got everything lined up as flush as I could, tightened the clamps just snug. Once I was OK with the line up, I loosened the clamps & slid in the 4" beam to hold the new board straight. Re-clamped fairly snug, checked line up & started removing glue. I used an old glue tub with a little water in it. Scrape the glue, dip it in the water & scrape it off into the plastic tub. It sinks to the bottom & sticks less to the putty knife.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu09puttyoff.jpg
This is where "hot hot" water helped, get the rag good & damp (not dripping) wipe up most of what is left , rinse the rag & wipe one more time then wipe with a dry rag.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu10wetclean.jpg
I check for straight (not dished or humped in the middle) if it was, I lossened/tightened clamps till it was level.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu11ckstrait.jpg
After 2 hours or so the mixed glue in the container was still fluid. It stays usable for up to 4 hours depending on the room temp.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj269/bogydave/glu122hrsinpot.jpg
Time to clean up anything else you may have glue on. use hot water to clean the brush, clamp handles. Floor, shoes, (top & bottom) hammer handle etc.
I was never able to do a glue and not step in it somewhere at least twice.
Even if I missed a place where it got on the floor it did not stick to the epoxy paint on the shop floor. Don mentioned that on bare concrete , it would lift the concrete if left to dry. I had plastic under the saw horses & it flaked off easy the next day.
But if you left it on wood or laid a piece of wood down on wood overnight, get your crow bar or chain saw. Tough glue when cured.
Miller time

[bogydave]

When the HD plumbing guy guru cut the treads on the pipe he said he had to cut the threads smaller or they wouldn't thread properly. I think he cut them too deep. I've many years running the Ridgid pipe threader & if you adj the thread dies tight you run the risk of breaking threads with not much torque. especially on thinwall sched 40 black pipe. This pipe HD from china) has a plastic coating thats a bugger to clean glue off of. I think the plastic was added to make the wall thickness meet specs. Good quality control eh?

[bogydave]

Should I take the pipe back to HD & have them cut new threads?

[Don]

It's nice to see a plan come together - I'm so proud. Okay, group hug.:rolleyes:

[bogydave]

Thanks Don.
The glue you recommended & the procedure was the trick.
I had lots of time to get the boards even,
I would've had a mess if not for that.
:)