help with surface roughness.

[DIYer]

Hey all. I now have two coats of lacquer down on my entertainment center cabinet and it is turning out great!!!....for the most part.

http://www.woodworkingbuzz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78

The surface isn't as smooth as I would like it at this point and I can't tell what it is. It could just be dust that settled when the first coat was wet/tacky. I did use a water based dye, so it could be some small hairs of grain that didn't sand off. It could even possibly be tiny little crumbs from the foam brush I used on the first coat (Doh!!! Never using one of those again.)

Since the wood is dyed black, I absolutely cannot see the culprit. I can feel it when I run my hand over the surface. I can see the tiny irregularities in the surface when you look at the glare from a light.

I realize that I may not be able to get a perfect surface, but I have to do the best that I can. I absolutely cannot strip it down and start over. I plan on sanding the whole thing down with 600 before moving on. I will sand again with 600 after the next (3rd) coat as well. I'm thinking that the 4th will be the final coat. Is there anything that can be done after that?

Thanks for the help!!!

[Don]

Hey, DIYr. Looks like your wood is rotary sliced red oak plywood. First off, oak has a very open pore structure, this aggravates the finishing process. There's hardly any talk nowadays of "filling" the wood grain like used to be done years ago. This filling process closed the pores and allowed a smoother finish.

The water based dye undoubtedly raised the grain, most woods don't like water, especially after finish sanding. Just one reason oil stains work as well as they do. But, it's hard to get the opaque colors like you wanted with oil.

Usually you would follow staining with a few coats of sanding sealer, this locks the grain and allows for easy sanding and "building" of the finish. If you didn't do that, don't be too dismayed, you can get there with a little more work. It's just going to take coats, proper drying and sanding each between. Use a small rubber sanding block to back up your paper as soon as you feel it's safe. Finger sanding large flat areas like you have only adds insult to your issues.

If you have trash, you just have to grin and bear it. Knock off the "highs" and re-coat. If you are actually using lacquer, it dries extremely fast and does not like to be brushed. If you must, you might want to spring for a white china bristle brush, a good one. Good brushes are a joy to use and will last a lifetime if cared for and used properly.

Only spend the extra time needed on the top, then the face, then the sides. Interiors are filled and forgotten too early.

Good luck, Don

[Dagster]

What Don said and also possibly it is the fibers of the wood raising up. This is common. It could also be particles that have settled into the finish. Just take some 400 grit sand paper and give it the once over, just lightly sand until the nubs are gone, now wipe it off with a lint free cloth and some mineral spirits.

This is why lacquer is sooooooo nice. It is extremely forgiving.

Apply a new coat and you'll find it is glossy smooth :D

[DIYer]

Thanks for the advice. Right you are...red oak plywood. I think I did a pretty good job of dealing with the water based dye and the raised grain. I put on a 5:1 diluted coat of dye to raise the grain and then sand it down. I put on a full strength coat of dye after that. There wasn't much grain change after that. I didn't dare sand though because the color was so uniform and I didn't want to risk cutting though the stained wood.

I'll do what I can for the inside surfaces and hopefully I'll have enough lacquer left over to put an extra two or three coats on the main outside surfaces....especially that big flat top surface.

The guy at lowes talked me into a foam brush...like I said that lasted for the first coat and I trashed it. I have purchased a china bristle brush and used it for the second coat. I have absolutely zero brush strokes. The lacquer self levels so well and the test board I made before moving on to the real deal has a silky smooth finish. So far, the application process is going well other than these inclusions.

I just want to double check...using mineral spirits to clean the sanding dust won't hurt the lacquer already applied?

[Dagster]

Correct, mineral spirits will NOT hurt or penetrate the lacquer finish. It isn't hot enough.

[Don]

I had a helper once that, for some reason, put his mineral spirits rag in his back pocket. After a while it got hot enough to have him sitting in the bathroom sink. Laquer, okay, butt cheeks, no.

dawjr

[Dagster]

I had a helper once that, for some reason, put his mineral spirits rag in his back pocket. After a while it got hot enough to have him sitting in the bathroom sink. Laquer, okay, butt cheeks, no.

dawjr

Ha! That's funny! I've never put any solvent near my tender bits so I can imagine it wouldn't be a pleasant experience.

[DIYer]

Thanks for the help guys!!! The third coat went on silky smooth. I'll repeat the sanding before the next coat to be sure I got every last bit. Also good news...I'm pretty sure I'll have enough lacquer for a 5th coat on all surfaces and maybe even a 6th coat on important surfaces. I'm totally relieved that this finish will turn out as nice as I hoped. I should have some final pictures after thanksgiving when I assemble and install the cabinet. Stay tuned.

[Dagster]

Good to hear. I think you'll find lacquer to be one of the most forgiving finishes. I love it.

[DIYer]

it seems like the lacquer in the bucket is getting thicker to brush on as the coats go by. I assume it is because of solvet evaporation while I have the can open. Any guidlines as far as keeping the correct viscosity of the stuff in the can by adding thinner as a go?

[Don]

Hey, DIYer. You are correct, the solvent in lacquer evaporates very quickly, that's why it makes such a good finish for commercial work. If you were spraying it you would really see what I mean. Anyway, lacquer is very tolerant of being thinned. Simply get you some lacquer thinner, (not mineral spirits or any oil based paint thinner) and put in a little at a time until you have it back to the consistency you like for brushing. With lacquer it is a matter of how fast it builds, versus the application method, when spraying, it can be cut as much as 100% or more, you will probably find that 10% or more will get you back in business.

Good luck, dawjr